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Re: "On the Measurement of BCAL Photoelectron Statistics" paper
Hello, Elke.
The answer from Zisis was faster than mine...
Indeed, the MC Geant-3 simulations with incident photons were made by
Blake and Rafael before I joined UofR in the end of April 2007. I believe,
you can find the written details in the "original" note 529 as well as in
the following notes 641, 659, 796, 797, 829. This is the only information
on this issue I have at the moment. Surely, Blake, Zisis and George have
much more plots from simulations in their files. Also (I believe) Blake
has the plots from the simulations with incident muons.
But what I referred in my e-mail, it was not the Blake's simulations but
the Monte-Carlo that Irina did recently with FLUKA standalone code with
incident muons and trigger conditions and space/angle distributions that
reproduces the conditions of the BCal cosmics test at JLab in 2006. I
believe, Zisis will report some of these results on the meeting as well as
some of results from her simulation with photons.
Because of some interest to the MC details was arised, I'll (probably) put
a couple more figures and words in the note 845, and will update it on the
portal on Wensday or Thursday.
From the other side, if your interest to the Monte-Carlo is originated
from the discussion with Richard, I don't think that the details of MC are
important here. It's pretty clear for me that the dominant fraction of
cosmic events has no shower but just dE/dx that is close to the MIP (or
just slightly above). Moreover (if you remember) to be absolutely sure
that we supress any shower, we applied special cuts in the analysis.
Thank you,
Andrei
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Elke-Caroline Aschenauer wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Zisis Papandreou wrote:
>
> Dear Zisis,
>
> thanks for the detailed update. actually that is much more info i had in
> mind the moment I asked my question. I'm aware that Andrei has not done
> the MC studies, but I just simply thought he might know where to find the
> same plot as Blake did for photons for a 5GeV muon. That was all I had in
> mind. I'm sure you will cover all in detail and if there is still an open
> question I will ask it on thursday.
>
> bye elke
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:40:08 -0600
> > From: Zisis Papandreou <Zisis.Papandreou@uregina.ca>
> > To: elke@jlab.org, semenov@jlab.org
> > Cc: halld-cal@jlab.org, richard.t.jones@uconn.edu
> > Subject: Re: "On the Measurement of BCAL Photoelectron Statistics" paper
> >
> > Hello Elke:
> >
> > the MC in GlueX-doc-807 came from Blake, and this was done before
> > Andrei's arrival at Regina. The technique is referred to in
> > GlueX-doc-529 but that document does not include Blake's plots shown in
> > 807. There is no document that includes these; they are output of the
> > Regina Standalone Monte Carlo (ReSAM) that Rafael and Blake developed.
> > It is Geant-3 based. This is the code that is still used for estimate
> > parametric behaviour of the BCAL (eg sampling fraction) to be used as
> > input for HDGEANT. Blake had run several photon energies (using the
> > GEANT photon "gun") and several incident angles. We have all these
> > plots in several GlueX-doc talks that George and/or I have given in the
> > last couple of years, and, of course, Blake has them on his computer.
> >
> > At the meeting this week, George and I will show new information on the
> > following:
> > - photoelectron statistics addressing Richard's concern. This analysis
> > has been largely completed by Andrei.
> > - information on the assumed starting point for no. of photons generated
> > per MeV of energy deposited. The new effective number is smaller than
> > the traditional 8000 photons/MeV that manufacturers quote.
> >
> > Andrei has updated his report on the cosmic muons and I will show his
> > stuff on Thursday. We hope to have is report up on the portal as
> > GlueX-doc-845-v3 very soon, possibly before the meeting.
> >
> > If these is additional info that you need, please let us know and we'll
> > get it to you if available.
> >
> > Cheers for now, Zisis...
> >
> > >>> Elke-Caroline Aschenauer <elke@jlab.org> 10/22/07 8:07 PM >>>
> > On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Elke-Caroline Aschenauer wrote:
> >
> > sorry, I forgot to mention for muon, so the same studies as in the note
> > but for muons.
> >
> > thanks elke
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Dear Andrei,
> > >
> > > I was wondering you could point me to the MC study corresponding to
> > the photon
> > > studies George showed in his talk and note from April
> > > 807-v1 Brief review of the BCAL and SiPM systems
> > >
> > > thanks elke
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 13:33:37 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > From: Andrei Semenov <semenov@jlab.org>
> > > > To: Richard Jones <richard.t.jones@uconn.edu>
> > > > Cc: halld-cal@jlab.org
> > > > Subject: Re: "On the Measurement of BCAL Photoelectron Statistics"
> > paper
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard:
> > > >
> > > > There is a problem in your paper: you assumed that the energy
> > deposition
> > > > in the fibers from MIP muons is close to that from electromagnetic
> > shower.
> > > > I do not think it's quite correct.
> > > >
> > > > From your formula (2), the about 5 MeV energy deposition (from MIP
> > muon in
> > > > the fibers) should have resolution of
> > > >
> > > > sigma_E = 0.06 * sqrt(0.005) = 0.0042 GeV = 4.2 MeV (viz., 84%
> > !!!)
> > > >
> > > > Simulation with FLUKA gives about 3.5 times less value (see the
> > > > attachment).
> > > >
> > > > The origin of the difference is that in the case of MIP muon (i.e.,
> > > > cosmics), we just have dE/dx loss but no electromagnetic shower
> > > > (including NO big spread of the deposited energy over the space
> > volume).
> > > >
> > > > So, the most of the "sampling" effects just can not be applied for
> > cosmics
> > > > analysis, that changes the conclusions of the paper a lot.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > > Andrei
> > >
> > > ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
> > > ) `\ -
> > > / '. | +
> > > | `, Elke-Caroline Aschenauer =
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> > >
> > >
> >
> > ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
> > ) `\ -
> > / '. | +
> > | `, Elke-Caroline Aschenauer =
> > \,_ `-/ -
> > ,&&&&&V Jefferson Lab +
> > ,&&&&&&&&: HALL-D 12C / F381 121-A Atlantic Avenue =
> > ,&&&&&&&&&&; Mailstop: 12H5 Hampton, VA 23664 -
> > | |&&&&&&&;\ 12000 Jefferson Ave +
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> > | | ;--' | Mail: elke@jlab.org Mobil: 001-757-256-5224 -
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> > +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+
> >
> >
> >
>
> ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
> ) `\ -
> / '. | +
> | `, Elke-Caroline Aschenauer =
> \,_ `-/ -
> ,&&&&&V Jefferson Lab +
> ,&&&&&&&&: HALL-D 12C / F381 121-A Atlantic Avenue =
> ,&&&&&&&&&&; Mailstop: 12H5 Hampton, VA 23664 -
> | |&&&&&&&;\ 12000 Jefferson Ave +
> | | :_) _ Newport News, VA 23606 Tel.: 001-757-224-1216 =
> | | ;--' | Mail: elke@jlab.org Mobil: 001-757-256-5224 -
> '--' `-.--. | +
> \_ | |---' Tel.: 001-757-269-5352 =
> `-._\__/ Fax.: 001-757-269-6248 -
> +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+
>
>