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Re: Overview Talk



Hall D PID Mail List:

I agree with Matt's concerns.   I think a good approach is to
undersell the prospects with suitable caveats.   But they don't
have to be put in the slides explicitly - just talk about them.

I do think it is valuable to show the E852 a2/a4 signals because
it does show that a partial wave analysis can pull out signals at
a 3% (of high cross section signals).   There is an underlying
skepticism about the effective of the technique - somewhat
based on anecdotes.  And of course there have been faulty
claims.  Comparing the results of our expected resolution with
E852 is also useful - we should be able to do just as well for
or better w.r.t. resolutions.   After that I would suggest talking about
prospects for photoproduction - on the one hand LQCD
and models suggest favorable production - on the other hand
photoproduction backgrounds are unknown (that's why we're
doing the experiment) and keep in mind the points Matt
brought up.  Undersell - don't make specific claims - but
we are aware of possible pitfalls and are gearing up to study
all this.   You won't get pushback with this approach.

Alex

At 5:45 PM -0400 3/25/08, Matthew Shepherd wrote:
>Hall D PID Mail List:
>
>
>Hi Curtis,
>
>I'm reading through your talk.  There are still several 
>typographical errors and such that I'll send in a separate email. 
>However, I have one or two "big" concerns that I would like to pick 
>out for discussion.
>
>On slides 14 and 15 --
>
>slide 14:
>
>the a4 is 3% of the a2 as observed in E852
>the a2 has a 0.5 mub cross section in photoproduction
>therefore GlueX should detect 3% * 0.5 mub or 15 nb things with E852 stats
>
>I think this is faulty logic.
>
>First of all there is no guarantee that the background in photo 
>production and pion production are the same.
>
>More importantly, if a2 is suppressed in photoproduction this 
>artificially pushes your claimed sensitivity down.  I think to make 
>any claim you would have say that a4 production in 3 pi in E852 is X 
>% of the total hadronic cross section.  Then one might roughly 
>estimate X * 120 mu-b for sensitivity in GlueX.
>
>The E852 example also is in a relatively background free channel.  A 
>high multiplicity final state that is fighting off background from 
>other broken events will certainly be more of a challenge.  Recall 
>in the all of the recent calorimetry work we were comfortable making 
>a loose statement about being able to isolate from background a 
>state produced at the level of a hundred nb and decaying into the 
>"key" channels.  This included an analysis of leakage from other 
>inclusively produced but mis-reconstructed events.
>
>slide 15:
>
>"GlueX will find exotic hybrids if they exist at a few % of normal mesons."
>
>This statement is not justified anywhere that I can see.  It may be 
>true under certain qualifying assumptions (hybrids are narrow, they 
>have some considerable 3 pi partial width, etc.).  Since this is the 
>key point for GlueX physics I would avoid making such a statement 
>that cannot be defended.  In my opinion I would categorize this as a 
>sound bite that is very effective in selling the experiment, but we 
>now we are at the final design and need to be serious with ourselves 
>and also with reviewers.  This is the opening talk -- if one of them 
>would latch onto that statement and really press you to defend it, 
>I'm afraid it could start things off on the wrong foot.  I also 
>think the panel will be on the lookout for what appears to be 
>essential concrete statements like this and attempting to verify 
>their validity.  We don't want to give them any that can't be backed 
>up.
>
>Don't get me wrong; I'm not throwing a wet blanket on GlueX physics.  
>I think you should emphasize the potential for discovery -- that's 
>what gives me goosebumps -- but I would back off from making strong 
>quantitative statements about sensitivity that we cannot clearly 
>defend.  (If you can rehash your argument for 15 nb using E852 
>comparisons that would be great, but as is, I don't quite see the 
>logic.)
>
>I'll make other notes on the slides and send them to you in the next hour.
>
>-Matt
>
>
>
>On Mar 24, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Curtis A. Meyer wrote:
>
>>I have reposted the slides to the overview talk to the GlueX
>>portal. It is now consistent with Elton's talk on PID, but I
>>will need to make another pass after Eugene posts his
>>talk.
>>
>>I tried to get all the sensible changes that were recomended
>>today. The reordering of things required a bit more rearranging than
>>I had expected, but I think it is roughly right now. I will be going
>>through it again carefully in the morning.
>>
>>  Cheers - Curtis
>>--
>>Professor Curtis A. Meyer        Department of Physics
>>Phone:  (412) 268-2745          Carnegie Mellon University
>>Fax:    (412) 681-0648            Pittsburgh PA 15213-3890
>>cmeyer@ernest.phys.cmu.edu  http://www.curtismeyer.com/


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alex R. Dzierba
Chancellor's Professor of Physics (Emeritus)
Department of Physics / Indiana U / Bloomington IN 47405 / 812-855-9421
JLab Visiting Fellow
Jefferson Lab / 12000 Jefferson Ave / Newport News, VA 23606 / 757-269-7577
Home Phone: 812-825-4063  Cell:  812-327-1881  Fax: 866-541-1263
http://www.dzre.com/alex
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~