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Re: New CDC prototypes II



Hi All,

My 2 cents....

I believe the mechanical prototype needs to be something different (full 
length and circular as Yves said). Our last discussion was to make a 
full 3 layer circle (+/-6° and 0°) and test sag, compression and twist 
stability. This would address comments by the review committee.

Cheers,

       Tim


Yves Van Haarlem wrote:
> Dear Elke,
>
> Thank you for your feed back.
>
> As I see it - in first order this prototype is meant for tests in 
> beams/magnets and for easy transport, that's why it is so small. We 
> plan to produce more than one of these prototypes. We have to do as 
> much mechanical and construction tests as possible; what is already 
> planned is to try to get a better glue joint between feed-thru and 
> donut (a concern shared by Gary, Tim, and Slava), another one is to 
> pot the connector where the HV board has to go in, a third one is to 
> find good ways to get the thing gas tight. I hope Tim and Slava have 
> advice/questions concerning this prototype, it might even be a good 
> idea to have a small meeting. To do really full scale mechanical tests 
> we need to do tests separetely I believe; one test in progress is to 
> glue a full ring of 1.5 m long straws together to study the sag. We 
> also discussed mechanical tests that need to be done with Tim and 
> Slava last review, if I recall correctly Tim is planning to do some 
> tests himself.
>
> I agree that waiting for the review report is a good idea as is having 
> this discussion (at the moment nothing is being built yet, we found 
> that we have enough crimp pins and barely enough pin-holders, we need 
> to produce donuts and feed-thrus).
>
> Cheers and have a nice weekend,
>     Yves
>
>
>                           /--------------------------------
>                          /   Yves Van Haarlem
>        _--~~--_         /
>      /~/_|  |_\~\      /      Carnegie Mellon University
>     |____________|    /        Department of Physics
>     |[][][][][][]|:= /          Wean Hall room 8404
>   __| __         |__ \            Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>  |  ||. |   ==   |  | \           USA
> (|  ||__|   ==   |  |) \
>  |  |[] []  ==   |  |   \           Tel.:   +1 412 268-6949
>  |  |____________|  |    \                  +1 412 641-9252
>  /__\            /__\     \          Fax.: +1 412 681-0648
>   ~~              ~~       \-----------------------------------
>
> On Sat, 5 Apr 2008, Elke-Caroline Aschenauer wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, Yves Van Haarlem wrote:
>>
>> Dear Yves,
>>
>> thanks for the update. I was wondering don't we not want to see what the
>> recommendations from the review are? Maybe there is a chance to adress
>> them with this prototype, of course I have no idea what 
>> recommendations we
>> will get.
>>
>> One other question are 24 straws really enough doing a full mechanical
>> test. I think it would be good to ask Tim for some advise on the scaling
>> of the prototype so we can test all the mechanical issues.
>>
>> cheers elke
>>
>>
>>> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:22:45 -0400 (EDT)
>>> From: Yves Van Haarlem <yvhaarle@ernest.phys.cmu.edu>
>>> To: halld-tracking-hw@jlab.org
>>> Subject: New CDC prototypes II
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> We just started to gather the necesary pieces for a prototype 
>>> containing
>>> 24 straws (1 preamp) in 6 layers of 4 straws each - honeycomb 
>>> packed. The
>>> (rectangular) endplates will be 9x8 cm2 and the chamber will be 40 cm
>>> long. The "upstream" end plate will be 9 mm thick Al, the 
>>> "downstream" one
>>> 4 mm thick Carbon Fibre.
>>>
>>> Cheers and have a nice weekend,
>>>      Yves
>>>
>>>                            /--------------------------------
>>>                           /   Yves Van Haarlem
>>>         _--~~--_         /
>>>       /~/_|  |_\~\      /      Carnegie Mellon University
>>>      |____________|    /        Department of Physics
>>>      |[][][][][][]|:= /          Wean Hall room 8404
>>>    __| __         |__ \            Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>>>   |  ||. |   ==   |  | \           USA
>>> (|  ||__|   ==   |  |) \
>>>   |  |[] []  ==   |  |   \           Tel.:   +1 412 268-6949
>>>   |  |____________|  |    \                  +1 412 641-9252
>>>   /__\            /__\     \          Fax.: +1 412 681-0648
>>>    ~~              ~~       \-----------------------------------
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Fernando J. Barbosa wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Elke,
>>>>
>>>> For tests without a magnet, there is the AGS test line at BNL.
>>>>
>>>> For tests with a magnet, you may want to check if the MPS area is 
>>>> available
>>>> at BNL (that's where E852 ran). Alex may have good contacts there, 
>>>> also.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Fernando
>>>>
>>>> Elke-Caroline Aschenauer wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Yves Van Haarlem wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Yves,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the question is what is the size of the prototype you want to
>>>>> build and what would you like to study. cosmic data in a magnetic 
>>>>> field or
>>>>> beam on mini-cdc in B field, or ....
>>>>> Because if we want to match the situation of Gluex for different 
>>>>> things we
>>>>> need different magnets.
>>>>> There was for example the offer to study something at Idaho 
>>>>> Accelerator
>>>>> Center, but that needs more investigation.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers elke
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:36:07 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>>> From: Yves Van Haarlem <yvhaarle@ernest.phys.cmu.edu>
>>>>>> To: Simon Taylor <staylor@jlab.org>
>>>>>> Cc: halld-tracking-hw@jlab.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: New CDC prototypes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Simon,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a lot for the info. Could you give more information or a 
>>>>>> contact
>>>>>> person that might know more concerning this magnet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>      Yves
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                            /--------------------------------
>>>>>>                           /   Yves Van Haarlem
>>>>>>         _--~~--_         /
>>>>>>       /~/_|  |_\~\      /      Carnegie Mellon University
>>>>>>      |____________|    /        Department of Physics
>>>>>>      |[][][][][][]|:= /          Wean Hall room 8404
>>>>>>    __| __         |__ \            Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>>>>>>   |  ||. |   ==   |  | \           USA
>>>>>> (|  ||__|   ==   |  |) \
>>>>>>   |  |[] []  ==   |  |   \           Tel.:   +1 412 268-6949
>>>>>>   |  |____________|  |    \                  +1 412 641-9252
>>>>>>   /__\            /__\     \          Fax.: +1 412 681-0648
>>>>>>    ~~              ~~       \-----------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Apr 2008, Simon Taylor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, Yves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding the availability of suitable magnets, the short answer 
>>>>>>> is that
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> would be difficult to find any magnets with sufficient magnetic 
>>>>>>> field or
>>>>>>> gap
>>>>>>> size or with the correct orientation for cosmic ray studies such 
>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>> magnetic field would be parallel to the straws. Certainly we 
>>>>>>> came up with
>>>>>>> nothing truly suitable for studying the FDC. The magnet we used 
>>>>>>> in Hall B
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> a gap of about 15 cm and goes up to ~1.2 Tesla. You could in 
>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>> fit a
>>>>>>> few layers of straws in there, but the magnetic field would be
>>>>>>> perpendicular
>>>>>>> to the wires, so that's no good. I have a vague recollection 
>>>>>>> that there
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> be a magnet at Brookhaven that at least has a large enough gap 
>>>>>>> size (48
>>>>>>> inches)...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yves Van Haarlem wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As you might know we plan to build one or more smaller 
>>>>>>>> prototypes of the
>>>>>>>> CDC in order to test the straws in a test beam and magnetic 
>>>>>>>> field. The
>>>>>>>> first thing I would like to pin down are the dimensions of this 
>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>> prototype. In order to use it inside a magnet it has to fit 
>>>>>>>> inside that
>>>>>>>> magnet (yes indeed). I understood from last review that a 
>>>>>>>> magnet search
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> performed for the FDC so I am hoping they could give me some 
>>>>>>>> input on
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> is available.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers and thanks,
>>>>>>>> Yves
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /--------------------------------
>>>>>>>> / Yves Van Haarlem
>>>>>>>> _--~~--_ /
>>>>>>>> /~/_| |_\~\ / Carnegie Mellon University
>>>>>>>> |____________| / Department of Physics
>>>>>>>> |[][][][][][]|:= / Wean Hall room 8404
>>>>>>>> __| __ |__ \ Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>>>>>>>> | ||. | == | | \ USA
>>>>>>>> (| ||__| == | |) \
>>>>>>>> | |[] [] == | | \ Tel.: +1 412 268-6949
>>>>>>>> | |____________| | \ +1 412 641-9252
>>>>>>>> /__\ /__\ \ Fax.: +1 412 681-0648
>>>>>>>> ~~ ~~ \-----------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
>>>>>   )    `\                                                  -
>>>>>  /    '. |                                                  +
>>>>>  |       `,              Elke-Caroline Aschenauer            =
>>>>>   \,_  `-/                                                    -
>>>>>   ,&&&&&V         Jefferson Lab                                +
>>>>>  ,&&&&&&&&:       HALL-D 12C / F381       121-A Atlantic Avenue =
>>>>> ,&&&&&&&&&&;      Suite 8                 Hampton, VA 23664      -
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>>>>> |  |       ;--' | Mail:  elke@jlab.org    Mobil: 001-757-256-5224   -
>>>>> '--'   `-.--.   
>>>>> |                                                    +
>>>>>    \_    |  |---' Tel.:  
>>>>> 001-757-269-5352                             =
>>>>>      `-._\__/     Fax.:  
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>>>>>             
>>>>> +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>> ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
>>  )    `\                                                  -
>> /    '. |                                                  +
>> |       `,              Elke-Caroline Aschenauer            =
>>  \,_  `-/                                                    -
>>  ,&&&&&V         Jefferson Lab                                +
>> ,&&&&&&&&:       HALL-D 12C / F381       121-A Atlantic Avenue =
>> ,&&&&&&&&&&;      Suite 8                 Hampton, VA 23664      -
>> |  |&&&&&&&;\     12000 Jefferson Ave                             +
>> |  |       :_) _  Newport News, VA 23606  Tel.:  001-757-224-1216  =
>> |  |       ;--' | Mail:  elke@jlab.org    Mobil: 001-757-256-5224   -
>> '--'   `-.--.   |                                                    +
>>   \_    |  |---' Tel.:  001-757-269-5352                             =
>>     `-._\__/     Fax.:  001-757-269-6331                              -
>>            +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+
>>
begin:vcard
fn:Timothy Whitlatch, PE
n:Whitlatch;Timothy
tel;work:757-269-5087
tel;fax:757-269-5279
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