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Re: Large area SiPMs from MEPhI (fwd)



Sure,Elke.No strings attached!!Don't worry..
                     Cheers,Christine
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008, Christina Kourkoumeli wrote:
>
> Dear Christina,
>
> that is a good idea. I would be very helpful to understand what the
> situation is  from first hand information.
> It would be also good to know what the plans for the next 2 years are. But
> please don't offer any payments from our side for developments.
>
> Thanks elke
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:59:27 +0200 (EET)
>> From: Christina Kourkoumeli <hkourkou@phys.uoa.gr>
>> To: George Lolos <George.Lolos@uregina.ca>
>> Cc: cmeyer@ernest.phys.cmu.edu, elke@jlab.org, elton@jlab.org,
>>      halld-cal@jlab.org, zorn@jlab.org
>> Subject: Re: Large area SiPMs from MEPhI (fwd)
>>
>> Dear all,
>> I have been following this mail exchange and reminded myself of the
>> situation about 3 years ago when we were investigating the Russian
>> market.
>> My colleague Pavlos Ioannou-who is Russian speaking and educated-will be
>> in Moscow in abou 3 weeks and can certainly get in touch with
>> Dolgoshein,
>> who is an old colleague of ours back in the 80's in the CERN ISR
>> experiments with NaI arrays.
>> Of course my many year working experience with the Russians is the
>> following:
>> 1) they do not keep quality up and deadlines
>> 2) They can change the price from one day to the other
>> But if we think that we can work with them ,then we may want to look at
>> B
>> field resistant PM's which they have developed as well, for the outer
>> layers!!
>>                           Cheers,Christine
>> > Hi all:
>> >
>> > There's a certain amount of nonsense circulating around the large area
>> > SiPM issue.  First of all, nobody now has anything larger than 3mm x
>> 3mm
>> > although Hamamatsu plans to produce 10 mm x 10 mm and MEPHi plans to
>> > also produce a bit larger SiPM's.  Planned and produced are two
>> > different things.  However, when they are produced, of course one
>> would
>> > be wise to obtain some for testing and getting price quotes.
>> >
>> > The argument that we have financed SensL's developments with the $225
>> k
>> > spent so far is pure fiction!  Their outlay of capital on the large
>> > arrays is much larger than that by about a factor of two or more.  In
>> > fact, their medical imaging investors have partly financed our array
>> > development.  Just on salaries alone for the physicists they have
>> hired
>> > and the engineer put on the project, the amount exceeds $225 k and the
>> > cost of so many Si wafers is quite considerable.
>> >
>> > The bottom line is that it is wiser for us to stick to the technical
>> > aspects of the project and consider the final price from whatever
>> source
>> > we decide to buy in the end and leave supposition and statements
>> without
>> > base where they belong.
>> >
>> > George
>> >
>> >>>> Elke-Caroline Aschenauer <elke@jlab.org> 02/26/08 7:47 AM >>>
>> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2008, Curtis A. Meyer wrote:
>> >
>> > Curtis,
>> >
>> > things are a bit more complicated, we are currently having a sole
>> source
>> > agreement with Sensl and the argument is, there is nobody else on the
>> > market who is able to do this. The latest contract is 200k$ just
>> signed
>> > a
>> > week ago, we get in big trouble if this is not true and the latest
>> > developments indicate that there might be soon more providers. so we
>> > have
>> > to investigate this seriously. And for me this means to test new
>> things
>> > on
>> > the market.
>> > Actually the total investment in the SiPMTs is quite high and I
>> > must admit I get also a bit doubts on the promised price by Sensl.
>> > In addition I have a bit the feeling we fund quite a bit their
>> > development
>> > for the arrays. Especially after what I saw on the german funding
>> agency
>> > meeting I have been last friday. we will see what sensl delivers in
>> the
>> > next six month and what the delays are on the contract.
>> >
>> > elke
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:09:26 -0500
>> >> From: Curtis A. Meyer <cmeyer@ernest.phys.cmu.edu>
>> >> To: Elke-Caroline Aschenauer <elke@jlab.org>
>> >> Cc: George Lolos <George.Lolos@uregina.ca>, elton@jlab.org,
>> > zorn@jlab.org,
>> >>      halld-cal@jlab.org
>> >> Subject: Re: Large area SiPMs from MEPhI (fwd)
>> >>
>> >> Hi Everyone -
>> >>
>> >>     while the historical performance of SciPMs may not be relevant
>> > today,
>> >> I think that the question that Elton asked about the report that he
>> > got
>> >> from Mahbub on results that were first presented in 2005. In that
>> > snese,
>> >> I assume that we got the answer we wanted. Clearly when we get to
>> >> the point of purchase, we will look at everything again, but knowing
>> > the
>> >> history of this rapid deveolpement is not at all bad.
>> >>
>> >>    Curtis
>> >> On Tue February 26 2008, Elke-Caroline Aschenauer wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, 25 Feb 2008, George Lolos wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear all,
>> >> >
>> >> > a discussion like that makes not to much sense it is based to much
>> > on hear
>> >> > say and historical information. The developemnt is quite fast on
>> > this
>> >> > market, so to judge things on a year old information is not a good
>> >> > strategy.
>> >> >
>> >> > I suggest we investigate what is available and buy if the products
>> > are in
>> >> > the suitable range for us, running at room temeperature and a
>> chance
>> > for
>> >> > getting bigger arrays in 2 years from now a couple of different
>> > SiPMTs and
>> >> > compare them. Carl we can look into this after the fiber
>> > measurements are
>> >> > complited.
>> >> >
>> >> > We discuss this in more detail on friday if I'm back.
>> >> >
>> >> > cheers elke
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:15:14 -0600
>> >> > > From: George Lolos <George.Lolos@uregina.ca>
>> >> > > To: elton@jlab.org, zorn@jlab.org
>> >> > > Cc: halld-cal@jlab.org
>> >> > > Subject: Re: Large area SiPMs from MEPhI (fwd)
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hi Elton:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Last year, there was a conference report on the 3mm x 3mm MEPHI
>> > SiPM and
>> >> > > they showed single photoelectron resolution comparable with what
>> > Carl
>> >> > > has shown at -20 C for the SensL.  However, the MEPHI measurement
>> > was
>> >> > > taken at -50 C, I have the file somewhere and I can dig it up if
>> >> > > necessary.  I don't know what is the performance of their latest
>> > version
>> >> > > but I suspect it is based on the results shown in that
>> > presentation.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > With SensL announcing their 3mm x 3mm commercial SiPM's sold as a
>> >> > > package with cooling and compact electronics, it was only a
>> matter
>> > of
>> >> > > time before other companies did the same.  If history is any
>> > indication,
>> >> > > the MEPHI detectors will be more noisy and with more variations
>> > than
>> >> > > those of CPTA and/or Hamamatsu.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Cheers,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > George
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >>> Elton Smith <elton@jlab.org> 02/25/08 2:59 PM >>>
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hi George and Carl,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Below is a reference to Buzhan et al, NIM A567 (2006)78-82
>> > describing a
>> >> > > 3x3mm2 SiPM from MEPhI. Do you know anything about this?
>> Comments?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Cheers, Elton.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Mon, 25 Feb 2008, Mahbub Khandaker wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Dear Elton,
>> >> > > >    Attached is an article on large-area SiPM that Boris
>> > Dolgoshein
>> >> > > > and his group at MEPhI has been developing.  Most of the
>> results
>> >> > > > are from 3mm x 3mm units but they say that 10mm x 10mm units
>> are
>> >> > > > in development.  These results were first presented at the 4th
>> > ICNDP,
>> >> > > > Beaune-2005 conference in France.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Best regards,
>> >> > > > Mahbub
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >  ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
>> >> >   )    `\                                                  -
>> >> >  /    '. |                                                  +
>> >> >  |       `,              Elke-Caroline Aschenauer            =
>> >> >   \,_  `-/                                                    -
>> >> >   ,&&&&&V         Jefferson Lab                                +
>> >> >  ,&&&&&&&&:       HALL-D 12C / F381       121-A Atlantic Avenue =
>> >> > ,&&&&&&&&&&;      Suite 8                 Hampton, VA 23664      -
>> >> > |  |&&&&&&&;\     12000 Jefferson Ave                             +
>> >> > |  |       :_) _  Newport News, VA 23606  Tel.:  001-757-224-1216
>> =
>> >> > |  |       ;--' | Mail:  elke@jlab.org    Mobil: 001-757-256-5224
>> > -
>> >> > '--'   `-.--.   |
>> > +
>> >> >    \_    |  |---' Tel.:  001-757-269-5352
>> >  =
>> >> >      `-._\__/     Fax.:  001-757-269-6331
>> >   -
>> >> >
>> > +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Professor Curtis A. Meyer        Department of Physics
>> >> Phone:  (412) 268-2745          Carnegie Mellon University
>> >> Fax:    (412) 681-0648            Pittsburgh PA 15213-3890
>> >> cmeyer@ernest.phys.cmu.edu  http://www.curtismeyer.com/
>> >>
>> >
>> >  ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
>> >   )    `\                                                  -
>> >  /    '. |                                                  +
>> >  |       `,              Elke-Caroline Aschenauer            =
>> >   \,_  `-/                                                    -
>> >   ,&&&&&V         Jefferson Lab                                +
>> >  ,&&&&&&&&:       HALL-D 12C / F381       121-A Atlantic Avenue =
>> > ,&&&&&&&&&&;      Suite 8                 Hampton, VA 23664      -
>> > |  |&&&&&&&;\     12000 Jefferson Ave                             +
>> > |  |       :_) _  Newport News, VA 23606  Tel.:  001-757-224-1216  =
>> > |  |       ;--' | Mail:  elke@jlab.org    Mobil: 001-757-256-5224   -
>> > '--'   `-.--.   |                                                    +
>> >    \_    |  |---' Tel.:  001-757-269-5352
>> =
>> >      `-._\__/     Fax.:  001-757-269-6331
>> -
>> >
>> > +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>  ( `,_' )+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=
>   )    `\                                                  -
>  /    '. |                                                  +
>  |       `,              Elke-Caroline Aschenauer            =
>   \,_  `-/                                                    -
>   ,&&&&&V         Jefferson Lab                                +
>  ,&&&&&&&&:       HALL-D 12C / F381       121-A Atlantic Avenue =
> ,&&&&&&&&&&;      Suite 8                 Hampton, VA 23664      -
> |  |&&&&&&&;\     12000 Jefferson Ave                             +
> |  |       :_) _  Newport News, VA 23606  Tel.:  001-757-224-1216  =
> |  |       ;--' | Mail:  elke@jlab.org    Mobil: 001-757-256-5224   -
> '--'   `-.--.   |                                                    +
>    \_    |  |---' Tel.:  001-757-269-5352                             =
>      `-._\__/     Fax.:  001-757-269-6331                              -
>             +=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+
>
>